Wednesday, September 06, 2006

Gurl...oh no he didn't...

When I was in high school my older brother brought home a white girl and said that he was going to marry her...Now mind you he is 15 years my senior so it wasn't like he didn't know what he was doing, he was a full fledged grown 30 year old man. I wouldn't say that it was the easiest thing for him to do because my father can be a tough man to please (now mind you this is ALL the way around, but he is hard on those we chose to date, he is extremely protective) but he did it anyway...what did I care if she is white, black, yellow or purple, as long as he is happy...

(furthermore, we ain't but a shade or two removed from white folks, a fact that many people tend to want to remind me of constantly by you know commenting on how light I am or how dark I need to be or can be via a tan...anyways)

Back to the post.....

But the issue that I DID and DO have with my brother is the fact that he stopped dating black women specifically because of various stereotypes that HE placed on us, you know we got to much attitude, we aren't as nice as white women, we play to many games, we are too materialistic...the list can go on and on...

To this day he will not date a black do I know because I asked him, and we got into this heated debate about it...I didn't care that she was white I just wanted to know what happened to the sistah...and boy oh boy why did I ask...she did this and she did that...and he would NEVER go, mind you he was head over heals in love with this woman, whom which my father told him she was up to no good but he choose not to listen, but anyways...he was going to marry her...then about 6 months later, she is gone and the new woman is wouldn't have matter black or white, I still would have asked what happened to the other chick just because I am noisy...but that man went OFF you hear me...and told me straight up, I love you and my mother but you are the only black women I will ever love again, I will NEVER date another black woman I am DONE!
Now, I am sure that he loved his wife, their marriage lasted a few years, but it wasn't that he loved her because she was his soul mate, but rather because she was the opposite of what he had dated and experienced...she wasn't a Black Woman and that's all that mattered...that was the FIRST requirement...NO BLACK WOMEN ALLOWED!
MAN now that's deep...

I guess what sparked this debate was because Kepa decided to write a post about this very was an interesting read and I suggest that you take a moment to read it before you finish THIS so that you can understand my point of view...

To me, true love has no size, shape or color, it is what it, For example, I am a thick light skinned African American young woman...who may just happen to fall in love with a Blue Black (that means black as night) African American young man that is as skinny as Tommy Davidson...and by the way he will probably end up being only about a 1/4 an inch taller than me!
Now picture that...but who cares as long as it unconditional love...
With that said, it doesn't matter if a black man dates a white woman, to me anyways, if that's whom he truly wants to be with...BUT if the brother is making a conscious effort to ONLY date white women because he thinks ALL sistahs are the devil on earth...NOW THAT I have a problem with...

Don't put me in a box and say we are more materialistic, don't make me out to be the woman that ONLY wants to have the well-dressed thug...don't make me out to be the enemy because I have to protect my heart...

I think my gurl Jessi put it best when she said this:
This is so late...but:

First things first...I feel where you're coming from. Its a genuine

But for the record, statistics show that African Americans & Africans,
when compared to all other Ethnic Groups, are more likely to NOT date
out side of their race. So interracial dating is a small fraction of
our population - it seems huge because of the drama surrounding it.

Now to address the "White Women are welcoming" - you might have a
valid argument there. You have to look at the two species (white women &
black women) and compare the two.

There are so many differences between the two women. When comparing
them, you have to look at them socially, spiritually, sexually, physically,
emotionally and economically. All of those facets pay an intricate part
in the development, attitude and overall life of the black woman. (we
do not have time today to break that sh*t down, my brother - we need a
conference at the DC Convention center with a panel of speakers, etc. to
that.) LOL

But hopefully you get my point.

However, I will address the concern you have about Not to mention "so
many black sistahs are caught up in thug images or clothes. Look at what
white people wear. They ain't concerned about fashion! At
least not to the extent that uppity negros are."

Mr. Man - this statement has everything to do with CULTURE than ones
race or ethnic group.

White people are jiggery than us brother! Please - thousands of white
women spend tons of money on bags that cost 4,000 and shoes that cost
1,000...they are more concerned with labels than us.

They just don't broadcast it....Step outside of your circle and go to a
modern mall and or urban nightclub or nightclub that's frequented by
whites (girls & guys) you are guaranteed to see the following:

Coach , Fendi, Dooney & Burke
Stella M, Abercrombie and Fitch (a place where a raggedy tank top
starts at the price of $45.00)
Gucci/Versace Shades, Purple Label Polo

I could go on and on. White girls and guys the like are as obsessed
with fashion and name labels as your average "sistah" its about the
culture that we live in. White women stay Jiggy - please trust and
believe. IT may not be as important as it is for SOME black women, but they
are obsessed with labels just as much as we are. But I'll admit , some
white women will holla at brother that doesn't have on the latest roca
wear sweat suit. They will.

I will admit that some "sistahs" have a problem with dating a guy that
doesn't quote on quote keep up with the jones's e.g.(air force ones,
nikes, enyce, rocawear, etc.) but if you're well groomed and confident in
your everyday look. I personally won't mind hollering - especially if
you're nice looking. So some are different.

Our obsession with image is something that is innately human - it
crosses color lines...We like the human body more with adornments, etc. So
its only human.

As far as the black and white thing - I have NO problem with a brother
courting or marrying a white women if that is who he loves. PERIOD.

But his premise for being with her should not be because "I (a
"sistah") "played games",and had an "attitude" or wasn't "welcoming to him" it
should be because he loved her and he feels that this is the woman for
his appointed time on this earth.

And I say, more power to him. But don't blame me because you chose to
go to a white woman.

Cause if you wanted me bad enough, you would have taken the time to
work sh*t out with me to help heal the wounds and meet me at a common
ground so that I could learn to treat you how you deserve to be treated and
you could do the same for me. IT's a two way street.

John Henrik Clarke - Master teacher speaks on this subject of the black
woman and black male in one of his lectures about the relationship of
the black male and female. I'll give it to Tiffany so you can hear it.
IT speaks on the Black Man's (hidden) obsession with the white woman
because he (black males) had to stand by and watch his mothers, sisters
and daughters be violated by white people (& men) and the majority of
the time he was not able to defend her.

Thus giving you the break down in the family unit within the black
community - thus you see the demise of the black father, husband and
overall role model within the black family and community. And the period of
the MATRIARCH rises for the remainder of the 20th century.

( I know, that was so extra - but its all connected. EVERY subject is
connect. FULL 360)

Just my take,

Back to me:

To me love is love, but if you are putting sistahs in a BOX because of past or because of your own that I have a problem with...
I don't know ladies and gentlemen what do you think...


j.a.c. said...

I was somewhat surprised when I read Kepa's words in that email you sent. I think I was a little confused (or I might have been annoyed) which is why I couldn't really answer him. But I think you and Jessi had some good points. It's not fair to cut yourself off from one type of woman because you've experienced difficulty with her "kind" in the past. And what does that mean anyway? Her "kind". It's definitely a facet of discrimination and stereotyping that we have to be careful of. I guess I was surprised to hear that from Kepa because he normally would drill down to the same type of conclusions that we are, but perhaps he wrote it to create discussion. I'm not sure...

T.C. said...

It was/is a general life observation that he made...I don't know...I know that I needed to say something, and I totally agree that is a stereotype on us...the VERY thing we have been taught...

Kep said...

Well, Like I said before it wasn't really meant to spread. I didn't send it out for discussion. It was just me understanding why black men sometimes go to white women. I was saying I could understand it not that I necessarily thought that way myself. It was one of those things where I write it on the spot, think of the other side of the argument and just didn't feel like stating it. Check out the revision, Jendi.


P.S.: I'm not heated about it, but for future reference, please ask before passing around blog entries. Emails are one thing, but my entries are all over the spectrum and sometimes it's just me making a quick point without really thinking it through. I tailor my emails to be read by other people so they don't get the wrong impression (i.e.: that I'm done with black women, and going to white women. . . which I never said.) I don't necessarily do that with xanga entries. Sometimes I just want to present a different perspective. And sometimes I just feel lazy, ya know? I guess it's not an excuse, but I know my xanga isn't that often read by people I know. But yeah, as you well know it's easy to misconstrue what I say. (i.e.: Mrs. Croom telling all of Kiamsha that I told her daughter that she dresses like a slut. That was SO blown out of context and proportion!) I can "understand" or "see" why black men go to white women is the operative phrase in that sentence. I'm going to leave this topic alone now. :-)

No point in debating when I agree with ya.


T.C. said...

You know what...Kep I did ask you I sent you and Jessi the post BEFORE I put it up and you replied and didn't say anything about it....I'll take it down...its not a problem, you evidently feel some type of way about put it up there and it sparked a conversation..

Kep said...

It's out there now, so I don't really care. Just for future reference. I just don't like being misconstrued, and when I don't think out the message (like I do sometimes with xanga entries), it's easy to do that. You notice that with all of my ranting on xanga, I only send out emails rarely or direct people to my page here and there. That's because 1. I don't want folks to get sick of me :-) and 2. because xanga's generally just raw. I say what's on my mind when it's there. No thought of how it's going to be taken, etc.

By the way, you didn't ask me before you sent it to Jessi. Seriously, though, I'm really not sweating it. You can keep it up. I'm just saying, I like to have my stuff thought out before I'm circulating it. Xanga's kind of a read if you will, take it for what it is type deal.

Seriously, I think you guys make good points, so keep it up. I'm just saying, ask a brotha. :-)


T.C. said...

You need to think about the fact that IF its up there on a website/page then it “maybe” discussed…WHO cares if I agree, disagree, or not…that’s what life is all about and a lesson that you need to learn PERIOD! You can’t just have one page of random thoughts and blurts of expression and then when someone says something about it or puts it out there, then you are upset…for what…YOU put it on a WEBSITE, PERIOD! It may be discussed…and that’s OK…no one thinks less of you or more of you…people say stuff all the time JUST to spark debate OR just to urk someone’s nerves…I personally will not link your stuff or send your stuff out again...we link to each other, me, JAC, MikeSee, all of us all the time, you were not just singled out...but its no longer an issue

JoJo D. said...

Great debate going on, TC. And you know what else I like to see, people (like you and Kep) having the sense to talk to each other in "person" and expressing your opinions with one another - instead of running off behind each other's backs and talking about each other. I've found that A LOT of other bloggers do that mess - email each other and talk disparagingly about someone else they have a problem with. Good conversation going on with you and Kep; I like that. It's cool to see it.

Have a good day.

(Oh: I forgot to say what I was going to say about the whole Black Man/White Woman thing, but... oh well.)

Daneger said...

TC, I think I agree with you on the interacial dating thing. As long as you love the person I am happy for you but it shouldn't be done for the wrong reasons. When I moved to NC (in highschool) I found that it was a lot more common down there to find brothas dating white women for all the wrong reasons. I was shocked the first time I heard someone tell me they don't get down with sistas because it was a hassle. I immediately called attention to their mothers brown skin but it was all in vein. I mean it was REALLY common down there. CRAZY!!

I also agree with what you are saying about linking to other Blog's too (tell 'em why you mad). You know you can post my Blogs any day sweetheart ;-)

T.C. said... and Kep are like brotha and we gonna keep it real...when you put stuff out there in cyber space its out there...sometimes folks will agree other times they won't...but that's what growth is all about...being challenged and learning to defend OR retract your positions...its ok...that's my lil bro and he should know that I love him dearly, but he put his thoughts, ideas, beliefs, etc. out there for the universe, just like we all they will be talked about...people like Jessi blog all day, so if I had sent it to her or not, she would have read it...that's just how we all do, in this little circle, we check each others stuff and those linked daily, several times a day....but Kep you know I love you!

@Danger...yeah it is crazy...when my own blood brother told me that mess I was like in total shock...race and race relations, has ALWAYS been in the forefront in my house with the various colors in our family, but when he said just took me to another level...and here it is some what you know what, I wasn't 15, I was younger than that because my niece is now in high here it is so 15/16 years later and he still will NOT date a black is what it is...but I surely don't have to agree with it!

Daneger said...

Ok, I got one for you I just thought about. How do you feel if a black man is completely opposed to dating outside of his race? Is this looked upon the same or differently. I know for me personally I will say it's not about color and try to be all open but you won't get the reaction for dating only white women if he is saying the same thing but it's only black women. Just being real.

BrillD said...

Hey t.c.. Good post. I think that
people can only speak about what
they have experienced. Chances
are Kep has had it rough with the
sistahs he's encountered.

T.C. said...

@Danger...I still have a problem with you gonna segragate feel box yourself off...My father is like that, hence the reason my brother was EXTREMELY bold for bringing his white girlfriend kind of reminds me of that "keeping the race pure" mentality...and let's JUST BE REAL...we are all mixed up...I say let love be love...I have no IBM (Ideal Black Man list) I have no Ideal man list..I have "givens" things that I think should be a given....but No, I personally don't think that's completely acceptable either you may be cutting off your own blessings...

@brilld-No, its not that...Kepa was just making a general observation on things he has seen...

Kep said...

Yeah, so I guess people are going to think what they think. You make good points. If it's on the net it's fair game. Feel free to circulate what you want. It'll be good practice for me to articulate my points better ;-)


P.S.: We've been circulating everything we write to each other. Why should you have to ask me now?